Undertow

January 26, 2008

In its way, “Undertow” is a gospel song for atheists and agnostics. Whereas traditional gospel music allows a singer to  express their faith and revel in their spiritual convictions, “Undertow” is sung from the perspective of a person who is emphatically stating that he does not want or need organized religion to get by, and that if anything, he feels suffocated by its presence in his life.  The song is not hostile to religion, but it is dismissive of its merits, at least in the context of his own life.  It’s important to note that the song’s message  is not “religion is not good,” but rather “religion is not good for me.” At its root, “Undertow” is essentially asking the listener to acknowledge that religion and secularism are equally valid ways of approaching life.

It’s not for nothing that “Undertow” contains such vivid imagery relating to water. In the verses, water is part of a beautiful, natural ecosystem full of creatures who — as far as we can tell — have no need for religion, just like the singer. In the chorus, water is a conflation of several essential elements of Christianity —  Baptism, holy water, the Great Flood of the Book of Genesis, Jesus walking on water, and turning water to wine and walk at the Marriage at Cana — and it symbolizes the way Stipe’s character feels suffocated by the religion.

“Undertow” is one of four songs on New Adventures In Hi-Fi that was recorded live in concert, and it is probably the one that benefits the most from its raw production values.  There’s a spark of spontaneity in the guitar and keyboard noises that may have been lost if the band had been given too many opportunities to overdub them in, and there’s a profound, go-for-broke urgency to the chorus that may not have easily captured otherwise. Perhaps unintentionally, but the live recording fits in nicely with the notion that this is essentially a gospel song in reverse: It’s a field recording of sorts, but instead of being taped at a home or church, “Undertow” was performed in a sports arena.

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41 Responses to “Undertow”

  1. jim jos Says:

    wow, just when I am having a Bad Day, I look and see one of my favorite songs on this great blog.

    With Murmurs of the new album being around 35 minutes long, it makes me think of how, one of the major problems with Post Berry R.E.M. is that the songs are often just too damn long and they drag way, way to much. Slower songs that could have a fair two minutes cut off in some places abound and add up to making the album lessor of its parts.

    Which makes me think of New Adventures. With how some of the songs are quite long, but they do not drag. Undertow, EBow, and Leave I all think of as wonderful kind of epic sweeps of songs, though all over five minutes, they don’t feel lethargic to me.
    Undertow just has that epic sweep to it, I feel.

    I love the feedback in the right place at the beginning. Love the whole bass line throughout, Mills background singing and the whole image drowning, breathing water. I just think the song is just so well done. I think that New Adventures is a really, really good and underrated album, and Undertow is the beginning of the “heart” of the album for me.

    My favorite line, and there are good ones all throughout New Adventures:

    “brother, can you see those birds, they don’t look to heaven, they don’t need religion, they can see.”
    I absolutely love that lyric. And Hi-Fi is loaded with lyrical parts of songs that I really love. Just about every song has one, but that might be my favorite, I make a point of listening that lyric specifically sometimes.

    Never thought of the song as a gospel song in reverse, but I like that imagery of it, too. Good write up, New Adventures seems drenched (hehe) with water images and religion images, Undertow does the best job of blending the two together.

  2. Beethoven Was Deaf Says:

    I do like the live/raw feel to this song and it does rock in a fairly conventional sense. That said, while I like Undertow and never skip it while listening to Hi-Fi, it still is among my least favorites on that CD. It’s funny but despite the lyrics of this song being fairly easy to interpret I do not really associate this song with religion (or the lack of it) and I am not sure why.

  3. ScottMalobisky Says:

    always thought it was, “brother ,can you see this burns”

    this song illuminates and magnifies unprecedented contortions in me, the occipital writhe and the improvised face down strut, amongst others

  4. Aerothorn Says:

    Illuminating as always. Never thought much about this song.

    I’m still looking forward to your write-up of Binky the Doormat – the R.E.M. song I’ve spent the most time thinking about, though it seems to be ignored by pretty much all R.E.M. fans. Maybe it’s just me?

  5. ScottMalobisky Says:

    it’s one of my TIP TOP faves there Aerothorn, as is this one and the preceding one

  6. DoorMatFace Says:

    Great tune in many ways and brings back back great memories of the Monster tour…however, it was the first time I recall my favorite singer taking a swipe at my religion. I’ve remained a fan of R.E.M. but trashing a religion is a good way to alienate a portion of your audience.

  7. protimoi Says:

    Aerothorn, I love “Binky” as well, and I think it’s unfairly overlooked as one of R.E.M.’s hardest rocking songs.

    Turning to “Undertow,” this song is fantastic, and “gospel” is a perfect word to describe the magnitude of emotion expressed here. When I first got New Adventures In Hi-Fi as a gift, “Undertow” failed to stick out. But some months later I was driving in the car, and the chorus kicked in as I accelerated to merge onto the highway. The song’s verses aren’t boring, but the chorus is just on a whole different level that forces me to sing along every time. Beautiful.

    And i love the wispy keyboard sounds courtesy of McCaughey. A rare instance of his contribution being immediately noticeable rather than simply beefing up the rhythm section.

  8. maclure Says:

    Perhaps your best write up Matthew, at least from where I’m sitting. You expressed what I thought about the song but better, and you gave me some new ideas to think about. Ace.

    I saw this first in 95 on the Monster Tour and was blown away by the live version – the guy I was with got annoyed cos I kept shouting in his ear for most of the song: “This is great, isn’t this good? How good is this? Don’t you think this is great? How good is this song?” etc.

    Jim jos, ditto the lyrics you cited. What I think is interesting is that they are an inverse of Jesus’ words who encouraged people to look to the birds, as they were cared for and clothed by their Father in heaven. Stipe is basically inverting various religious (read Christian) ideas in this song. i.e. it is a gospel song for atheists. Probably their most explicitly anti- (or “not for me” as MP says) religious song. Interesting that it comes directly after NTL which has a first verse about Jesus too. I asked this on the These Days thread, but can anyone actually tell me where Stipe directly states he is an atheist? Mills and Buck are on record saying they’re atheists. Interesting to me that if REM are a band of atheists, anti-religion or anti-God themes don’t get much of a look in – they are mainly silent or ambivalent on the issue… although they occasionally strike a passing shot at the established church. I wonder if this is the case because close family members of theirs are Christians and they would prefer not to be street preachers of atheism.

    Musical note: the tinkly, squiggly noises are made on Buck’s guitar by strumming the ends of the strings between the top of the bridge and the machine heads. It never sounds the same twice which is one reason why I like the album version of this song, they got a really good chunky take.

  9. Brian Says:

    Hmm. That idea of it as a “field recording” raises a unique idea – in a strange way, the sports arena (to some) is a house of secular worship (look at all the pagentry that will happen in Phoenix next week). Perhaps it’s appropriate that this “agnostic/atheistic” gospel song is recorded in such a place?

  10. ScottMalobisky Says:

    I don’t know if Stipe states that anywhere or not , maclure…..

    there’s really not much difference between a rock concert and an impassioned religious revival though except that religion exhorts the possibility of being high for eternity factor as opposed to finding a better way to be in a higher place in this lifetime , personally I know that here and now is real –FOR SURE–so that takes first priority for me, whatever makes me happy that’s what I’ll do , and what makes me happy is ceertainly changing as I grow older .Either way , we’re all looking for the same thing , we want to be as high as possible, in the best possible place , people go thru different ways and phases of trying to achieve it…Shit ,the argument could be made that Mother Theresa was the most self-serving person who ever lived , perhaps just trying to assure her ass a cushy spot it that plush olive garden in the sky.

    “Anything not eternal is eternally useless.”__CS Lewis

  11. DoorMatFace Says:

    In response to maclure…

    My guess for Stipe is that he is agnostic, perhaps leaning toward athiest. I do recall an interview where he was asked if he was an athiest and he replied “Oh Heavens no!” (I don’t have a source, but I recall reading that. He *did* do a song where the chorus was something about “May God’s Love Be With You” recently. I think it was a cover for a charity album or something. And the part about “May God’s love be with you” didn’t seem to be sarcasm or anything.

    I think he had a grandfather who was/is a pastor (maybe I’m mistaken about this…but I’m fairly certain it’s a grandfather or uncle) so I suspect there is some religios roots in Mr Stipe’s family tree. So perhaps you are correct in him not wanting to preach athiesm because of his family.

    As for Buck and Mills…Buck is an athiest, I’ve never heard comment from Mills, however, another on this thread says he has heard from Mills that he is indeed athiest, so likely true.

  12. Ben Says:

    Undertow, like most of the songs on that album, is more about sound to me than lyrics. There’s just something about the production of that record that gives the whole thing a stronger sense of cohesion than any other R.E.M. album, and whenever I listen to those songs now they always sound exactly the same as they did 11 years ago. R.E.M.’s music is inextricably linked to my adolescence, and Hi-Fi in particular conjures up vivid memories of sitting in the backseat of the family minivan on some roadtrip with the CD spinning in my Discman, watching the countryside fly by. Luckily for me, my personal memories of the album match up perfectly with the imagery that the songs evoke. Maybe that’s why it’s always been my favorite since it came out…

    One more note about the specific song: I’ve always really loved how at the very end of the track, through all the feedback and static, you can just barely make out the crowd noise from the original recording. Crank it up if you don’t believe me.

  13. 2fs Says:

    Jim jos: Funny you should say that…because for years my complaint about NAIHF was that its songs were all just too long. I thought that every song on it could stand to be trimmed, anywhere from 15 seconds to a minute or more. I’ve come around on the merits of the album as a whole – but I’m not sure I still don’t think many songs are too long. Certainly, pacing and sequencing of albums has become a liability with their later stuff (I’ve bitched endlessly about Reveal and the way several tracks in a row are not only all slow or, at most, midtempo – but also in the same damned key or one closely related).

    Maclure: Not sure why you imagine atheists need to “preach” their non-religion. I mean, there are many things I don’t believe in (unicorns, the tooth fairy, George W. Bush’s heart) but I don’t spend all my time preaching about them. I think it’s reasonable that an atheist simply has more things to think about than someone else’s belief in a giant hairy invisible friend in the sky…

    Anyway: another reading of this song, following on Matthew’s, essentially distinguishes between “religion” (or more particularly, a religious instinct) and belief in God. The lyrics seem to say, yeah, you can look at the world and see wonders, but why spoil things by dragging a god into it, thunderbolts and all?

  14. pete Says:

    Love Undertow, albeit the Road Movie version rather than the NAIHF version. To me Stipe’s re-recorded lyrics lack the raw visceral power of the live renditions, particularly the chorus. The ‘I’m drowning me’ line as delivered on Road Movie, is as impassioned as any line ever sung by Stipe and in comparison the album version falls short, sounding comparitively thin and flat.
    That being said, and regardless of which is the better version, I still love the song.
    As for people’s comments on Stipes avoidance of religion in his lyrics, go back and listen to murmur, specifically Talk About the Passion and Moral Kiosk – pretty scathing from where I’m listening.
    Surely religion is the central theme of both Man on the Moon and Sweetness Follows (alongside death of course, both of which are intrinsically linked). While the amount of religious imagery on NAIHF needs no further discussion.

  15. ScottMalobisky Says:

    the central premise of existentialism , though initially daunting , is actually very empowering and inspiring; the idea that this life, this 75 years or whatever it may be of you existing amongst the millions of uninhabited by you eons WITH NOTHING MORE BEFORE OR AFTER (for you) makes it absolutely imperitave that you make a difference , a sense of urgency that each moment you get it right,that you treat people right and such, you know ??..although at first the natural reaction for someone who might believe that’s the way it is would probably be , “Why bother? What the fuck difference does it make ?”…As opposed to the notion that this life is essentially for getting one’s house in order to properly establish one’s place in the next one…And suicide bombers sure know how to establish their positions (to cite an extreme example) , other less violent religions just encourage one to deny their very natures….. to some extent.

    Not that I’m an existentialist, not totally dyed in the wool anyway . Too much evidence, too many incidents, of spirits apparently living on .

  16. milesy Says:

    I think MP has really nailed this one, not for the first time. It is a great rock song, I too loved hearing it live and new back in ’95- but an interesting and thought-provoking song too, as all the comments testify.

    Doormatface- ‘trashing a religion is a good way to alienate a portion of your audience’. I’m not sure about that. As MP said, the song is not hostile to religion as such- it’s just that it’s not for the protagonist, who I take to be Michael, although maybe I shouldn’t assume things like that with REM songs… Anyway, I’m not sure why I, as a Christian, should be alienated because a band I like expresses a view that is not mine, even if I would beg to differ with some of what they say.

    2fs- interesting that you wonder why some might think atheists need to ‘preach’ their religion- try reading some Richard Dawkins! Although I would have to admit that many Christians are worse when it comes to sensitivity and respect for the views of others- and, it is true, I know of some Christians who don’t like REM because of their ‘views’. They don’t speak for me though!

  17. milesy Says:

    Incidentally, by the time REM came on stage at the Milton Keynes Bowl in 1995 at the end of a hot July day, I had been there for 8 or so hours and had run out of water a long time before, I would guess somewhere between the Cranberries and Radiohead. I didn’t want to go for a drink for fear of losing the place near the front I’d worked so hard to get. Then here comes Michael with, to the crowd, ‘Do you want water? I don’t have any water. I have some tea that Radiohead gave me, but you can’t have it! This is a water song.’ (that was the gist, anyway). Thanks a lot,Michael! All was forgiven, of course, particularly with the incredible encore of Let Me In, Fall on Me, Departure and ITEOTWAWKI…

  18. Alex Says:

    I may have missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone bring up the chorus in relation to the water/religion theories being proposed. How does “I’m drowning” relate to these ideas?

  19. Elliot H. Says:

    This was my favorite R.E.M. song when I was just getting into the band, probably because it’s their highest soaring chorus (Mike’s back singing “Breathing Ourselves!” made the song). Looking back at it now I’d say Undertow is R.E.M’s best rock song and has some of their best lyrics.

  20. Michael Says:

    I’ve never really thought about the religious theme to this song until now (and now it seems obvious) but I’ve always felt like it has a kinda churchy quality. The way the chorus soars is like a religious experience in itself.

    The Milton Keynes show that milesy mentions was broadcast on Radio 1 in the UK and I taped it onto a cassette. I remember listening to this song over and over again, absolutely blown away by that chorus. I read a quote from Thom Yorke once where he described an REM song as one of those songs that makes you feel 10 feet tall. It might even have been Undertow that he was talking about. Either way, it’s definitely a ’10 feet tall’ song…

  21. Figgy Says:

    Hey, milesy. I remember that Milton Keynes concert. Not that I was physically there, but the REM set was broadcast live on Irish radio. I diligently taped the whole thing and have listened to that concert several times over the years – you’ve just reminded me of Stipe’s water comments.

    While listening to the radio that night, “Undertow” had a familiar ring to me because I’d been to REM’s Slane concert the previous week and heard it there. Pretty much liked it from the word go. A solid rock song with good lyrics.

    The last time I heard this song was just a few days ago on a bootleg DVD called “The One I Love” – which Kirsten reliably informs me is made up of “Road Movie” footage – and I thoroughly enjoyed it. A really good performance and probably the one Pete was referring to earlier. We actually see Buck strumming the strings close to the machine heads to make those tinkly sounds maclure mentioned. I’ve always thought the version on NAIHF was quite beefy too and matched up well to the live performances – the production was just right, in my opinion.

    On the subject of getting the production right, has anyone listened to the snippet of “Supernatural Superserious” on the REMHQ website? Sounds good. To my ears, at least.

  22. maclure Says:

    I’ve been unable to check this since I last posted, so thanks to everyone who has made follow up comments.

    2fs- of course you’re right, agnostics or atheists need not preach their “religion” in the same way religious people are compelled to do, but rock’n’roll has often gone hand in hand with trash talking the established authorities which invariably includes the church. Other bands are a lot less subtle than REM about this…

    Doormatface- Good call! Stipe talks about the song you mention and his own interpretation of God in it at the beliefnet interview I mentioned. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/187/story_18748_1.html

    Oh, it’s true REM are not silent on all this. I think UP contains some of REM’s most poignant relgious-talk.

  23. Clare Donoghue Says:

    Wow, what a good write up Matthew of one of my favourite songs & some really good comments from all the regular players! God how I love NAIH.

    The first time I heard Undertow it was on the Monster tour at an outdoor concert in my home town. To echo what Milesy said, I thought I was going to die of sun stroke such was the heat on that day, or at best end up in the First Aid tent just in time for the band to come on (I had been in place since 11am!!)

    Michael introduced it as the “water song” & it gave me the feeling then that it still gives me today. I love the religious element, the dismissive yet not disrespectful stance of the protagonist & I adore the instrumentation which really kicks in loud when done live. It really does give you the sense of ploughing through water, in a good way!

    Incidentally, just have to share my excitement…. I’ve just seen my HEAD on Utube in Dublin!!! Please God my hair at the front was tidier than at the back, I was right in front of Michael!!!!

  24. narcizo Says:

    I ‘d like to make a comment on another subject, and forgive me for that.
    Although I find MP point of view interesting and well put, I don’t agree with it completely; my guess is that there is more about this song than religion, as in many REM songs – there is more than what meets the eye.
    Anyway, jim jos said earlier that this song is the beginning of the heart of the album; the thing with New Adventures is that it has an amazing Side 1 (6 out of 6 for sure) and a Side 2 that is not as good as the first. Most of my friends who had or listened to that record made the same comment.
    Does anybody think that the success of that lp was predestined by that fact, that in many cases there are indeed small details responsible for an upcoming success or failure?
    Once more, sorry for stepping out of context. I think that the final round of this blog will be indeed thrilling.

  25. Clare Says:

    Wow a brill write-up Matthew of one of my favourite songs & some very good comments from the regular cast! God how I love NAIH. Let me count the ways.

    First time I heard Undertow was at an outdoor concert for Monster in my home town. To echo what Milesy has said, I really feared I would die of sunstroke, such was the heat that day, or at best end up in the First Aid tent when the band came on.

    I felt then about the song just as I do now. Fantastic lyically, the protagonist’s disregard yet I think not utter disrespect for religion, & the instrumentation stripped down & cranked up is majestic live.

    I don’t know how they do it but Michael just manages to evoke smells, tastes, elements, just by his diction & annunciation; & coupled with the genius drive of the music the song really does make me think of treading through water …in a good way!

    Incidentally, must share my excitement. I have just seen my head on Utube footage in Dublin! Please God the front of my hair was tidier than the back…(I was right in front of Michael!)

  26. ScottMalobisky Says:

    I’m not sure I understand the question, narcizo..

    and apparently Stipe has gills

  27. maclure Says:

    Changing the subject, the portion on remhq of the new single sounds OK – I like the song formerly known as Disguised, quite radio friendly. I don’t know if they sorted the chorus cos in Dublin it wasnt really ready if I recall. The guitars are quite dirty and meaty, but also shine with a bit of “Jacknife Lee” polish. Liking it a lot. Today’s ninetynights clip has a large chunk of the song Accelarate on it too. Sweet.

    BWD – is it you who doesn’t want to hear any of this until the album comes out? Sorry if I’m spoiling the surprise.

  28. Ignis Sol Says:

    I still think Michael remains mum on his religious stance. I could guess he is atheist by past articles and assumptions, but he has never made this clear to my knowledge. Besides, it is none of my business (I just want to know everything else!). In this song, I think, he is not the subject.

    Although “Undertow” addresses the issues of a specific religion, probably Christianity, (and possibly atheism or agnosticism as MP mentions) it seems it is actually about belief and faith. The narrator has the same basic belief systems as the one he is analyzing. He even identifies with some of the tenets and motifs of that particular religion: “sister,” “birds,” “heaven.”

    His favored water images in this one reminds me of the spiritual awakening of the character in “I’ve Been High.” Diving is a leap of faith…water is freedom/enlightenment…

    Peter’s, Mike’s and Bill’s driving stadium usic accelerates (heehee) and slows down like a racecar speeding around and around while the singer earnestly explains his valid point of view. And we listen.

  29. Paul Alferink Says:

    The song with the “May Gods love be with you lyrics were from “In the Sun” the Katrina fundraiser album. It’s a cover song, so take his religious professions with a grain of salt.
    By the same token, mostly Stipe songs are sung in character, so take this song and “I can’t say that I love Jesus” from New Test Leper with that same grain.

    This is kind of a shrug song for me. Although I always was a sucker for water and religious imagery.

    And Scott, there are two branches of Existentialism, Theistic and Atheistic. Athestic is what Sartre and Kierkgaard and Neitche where all about. Theistic existentialism is a different animal altogether. I only know what I read in my college classes, so my prospective is rather limited, but Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” was an interesting treatis on the subjest of Theistic Existentialism.

  30. ScottMalobisky Says:

    cold and bony-tired , cool
    bony-tired suggests a very thin individual
    can a more stout person be cold and bony-tired ?

    I know how I wanted this to be
    Not that it worked out that way
    ah, crikey

  31. Web Design Says:

    If you’re an atheist, religion is to your personal philosophy as water is to breathing. To force an atheist to believe in God is like making a person breathe water: drowning him/her.

  32. Kirsten Says:

    Ahh, love a good water song! I was going to say that this is my favourite from NAIHF, but the album is so strong that my opion on that could change. This is, however, definately one of the most brilliantly written songs, musically and lyrically. I second everything everyone else said about why they like it. You can almost feel the water filling up your mouth and throat as you drown.

    Best Line:
    I don’t need a heaven
    I don’t need religion
    I am in the place where I should be.

    Living for now, instead of living to die.

  33. Kirsten Says:

    Now is greater than the whole of the past.

  34. Clive Says:

    Can’t decide whether I prefer the ‘Bittersweet Me’ B-side version or the New Adventures version. I think I’m right in saying the album version is a good deal slower and there are other subtle changes too like the way sings ‘me’ in ‘I’m drowning me’. Also, I think I prefer the instrumentation and the weird guitar sounds at the end of the B-side version.
    I was delighted to have seen this song played live in Birmingham, England in 2005 because (for obvious reasons) it sounded like listening to the album version.

    You know why I’m tired.

  35. Beethoven Was Deaf Says:

    Maclure, I don’t mind discussion of the songs here, I’ll make my opinions when I hear them. I just like the experience of the new album as an album and won’t listen to anything until the CD is released with the exception of the lead single (and “Until The Day Is Done” as I watched the CNN special and then went and checked it out on the website). Otherwise I’ll be patient. But by all means all of you are free to listen and discuss!

    As to hot concerts I attended the Pearl Jam show at the Gorge in Washington two July’s ago and the temperature hit 120F that afternoon and they would not allow you to bring in water – BRUTAL! Great show though, PJ played a full double set.

    In other music notes (not that you care) I am a big fan of The Tragically Hip from my days of living in Canada, but I only owned their greatest hits CD, well, yesterday I found 7 of their 10 studio albums at my local used CD store and 4 of them were in the bargain bin and under $5!!! I think I am going to break down and go to their website and just buy he other 3 so I have them all. I recommend them to all – sort of a blend of REM and Pearl Jam, very literate and rocking.

  36. ScottMalobisky Says:

    The Waterboarding Song , sung in the nefarious ,secretive corridors of malfeasance.

    Should be noted that The Mac is against waterboarding ,and all forms of torture , not bad for a Republican.

    Oh , I forgot ,The Mac is not a Republican.

  37. Kirsten Says:

    Hey Ben, thanks for the tip! I listened to Undertow last night and yes, there it was – the audience half faded out at the end. I had previously heard it without realising what it was. There’s so much noise going on there it’s hard to decipher one from the other.

  38. Figgy Says:

    Clare Donoghue, is Slane actually your home town?

  39. clare Says:

    Sorry my post appeared 2wice back there, I wrote it at work, then for over a day it didn’t appear so did it again (& forgot what I wrote as you can see!)

    No Piggy, not Slane, I live in the hills inbetween Machester & Leeds, certainly never imagined REM would ever find me here!

  40. Figgy Says:

    Sorry, Clare, piecing together the clues… an Irish surname, the Monster Tour and a hot sunny day… made me think of Slane in July of ’95!

  41. Kenneth Says:

    I’m fond of the crowd noises audible at the end. I didn’t notice them until I was listening to the album some time last year, several months after I originally had listened to it, and several times after. It was the loud whistle I picked up, and had to rewind it a few times to make sure it was there.

    This is one of the few R.E.M. songs where the guitar parts can be played only loosly based around chords and notes and can be played differently each time (other examples include “These Days”, “You” and the solo on “Country Feedback”), as opposed to strict Buck-picking songs (the intro to “Living Well Is The Best Revenge” is a bitch).


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